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Just wondering, after 2.10 comes out, will player objects still be created with the _char method?

If not, will there be a conversion process to move former player objects into the new format?


P#8503 2014-03-13 18:55 ( Edited 2014-03-24 04:37)


Players in 0.2.10 will be created the same way as monsters -- animations can be added with their own triggers and groups. It requires a bit more work than the _char method to make something from scratch, but I'll include some example templates that can be modified and used to convert old character animations to the new scheme. Moving earlier player objects to the new scheme will be mostly a matter of copying and pasting the old frames into a copy of the template.

P#8504 2014-03-15 06:06 ( Edited 2014-03-15 10:06)

Sweet, That alleviates alot of fears I had with starting any 2.9 work!

Next Q: What's the current changlog looking like for 2.10?

P#8505 2014-03-15 07:08 ( Edited 2014-03-15 11:08)

Here's what it looks like at the moment (below). The most important changes for WIP levels is the way that new players and new doors work together. I'll include release notes on how to transition to the new scheme, but basically:

  • Old _char players need to be manually converted by pasting frames into a 0.2.10 player template
  • Old spawn points and doors should be replaced with new doors

There will no longer be any need for actor starting points (the first item in the ACTORS tab) -- it's better to not try mixing them with 0.2.10 doors. But if it turns out to be a pain to update large levels, it will probably still work! And old existing levels posted on the BBS will still be supported of course. For both cases I plan do a quick support update soon after 0.2.11 to address any backwards compatability issues.


Added: Custom players
Added: Chaos arena (alpha demo cart)
Added: Custom doors and spawn points
Added: Custom bullet properties and crater sizes
Added: World perminence system // elephant mode / collect_once
Added: Green checkpoint flags (save when exiting room)
Added: Room objectives / room clearing
Added: Extended microscripting and inter-room superstates
Added: Actor property value mini-functions
Added: Base types: shape, colour
Added: Modifiable room height (maximum 64)
Added: Room properties: liquid_z, extend_walls, skip_timeline
Added: Motion blur for fast moving actors
Added: Actor properties: friction, bounce, density, attack damage
Added: Actor facing quantization
Added: Cart selection for alpha demo levels
Added: Transparent colours
Added: Maximum player life pickups
Added: Save point pickups
Added: Default objects and templates
Changed: Collision events can optionally apply to walls/actors/any
Changed: Microscripting statements replace old object instance triggers
Changed: Removed minimum 4x4x4 size limitation on props
Changed: New savegame storage (historic saves invalidated - sorry!)
Optimized: File saving and resulting png size
Optimized: Editor rendering, gui responsivity
Fixed: Floating ground caused by destructive weapons
Fixed: Team logic for bullet collisions
Fixed: Pasting objects from another file yields duplicate ids
Fixed: Sound mixer thread crashes
Fixed: BBS level title clobbering

P#8506 2014-03-15 08:52 ( Edited 2014-03-15 14:10)

Finally, here's a simplified version of the 0.2.10 to do list. Note that it isn't super-long :)

  • custom audio triggers // either stock synths, internal/imported .xm modules
  • HOST.e_collide means either with actor or map // more natural from user point of view
  • legacy fix in disk.c: host.e_collide -> w/ any actor
  • e_collide with any / particular actors // placeholder
  • high-level scheme for indicating which actors can hurt each other (separate to team logic)
  • fix controller setup // or move to new controller scheme 0.2.11
  • check save states are future-proof
  • check bbs level compatability
  • check component activation scheme is well-defined
  • voxde help tips
  • voxde user manual
  • balance chaos arena
P#8507 2014-03-15 09:03 ( Edited 2014-03-15 13:03)

Hey, what happened to no-gravity?

Or is that an inter-room superstate?

P#8508 2014-03-15 14:05 ( Edited 2014-03-15 18:05)

That should come under Actor properties -- forgot to list it.
At the moment it's a per-actor-type property, but later it might make sense to also have a global gravity multiplier.
It's also possible to lock actors' z position for making overhead 2d games etc.

P#8509 2014-03-15 15:04 ( Edited 2014-03-15 19:04)

Microscripting is tbr next ? Awesome

P#8510 2014-03-15 16:27 ( Edited 2014-03-15 20:27)

"Changed: New savegame storage (historic saves invalidated - sorry!)"

does that mean that we'll have to redo our levels all over again and the bbs list will be reseted?

if so, I should do something with some unfinished projects here...

P#8511 2014-03-15 16:37 ( Edited 2014-03-15 20:37)

If this is the case I already have my BBS levels saved on my desktop computer. I am just known to also work on my laptop, which is buggy as all you-know-where. It's safer on my desktop computer.

P#8512 2014-03-15 17:37 ( Edited 2014-03-15 21:37)

EDIT: crappy BBS software clobberd by earlier post. serves me right. :/

> does that mean that we'll have to redo our levels all over again and the bbs list will be reseted?

"historic saves invalidated" means that player progress will be wiped -- not the older levels themselves. So if someone is half-way through playing a long level, they will have to play from the start. It's kind of annoying but I don't think too common at this point while the BBS is quiet, so a good time to do this. The new savegame format is more future proof and (hopefully!) I can support it indefinately. Existing BBS levels will continue to exist and be supported!

> Microscripting is tbr next ?

It's still not a full scripting solution, but is expressive enough to do many things you'd want in a typical game. For example, "if any actor of type n is hurt then start shooting", or "if object n (in another room) is collected, then activate". The goal of microscripting is to be a thin layer with a graphical interface that can be used to control objects at a high semantic level, and later to trigger traditional text-edited lua scripts.

P#8516 2014-03-16 05:52 ( Edited 2014-03-16 10:15)

oh so it means that voxatron will have some kind of permadeath now?

P#8517 2014-03-16 06:03 ( Edited 2014-03-16 10:03)

Well, you can design levels with no checkpoints or save points. Is that what you mean?

Permadeath will be more meaningful later when levels can be procedurally generated. (I'm working on that now, but will probably be a v0.4 thing as it needs extended world state saving)

P#8518 2014-03-16 06:20 ( Edited 2014-03-16 10:20)

sorry, I didn't understand at the first time, I think I understood the historic saves now, you mean that if you quit the level halfway it will not save right?

looking foward to procedual generation too!

P#8519 2014-03-16 06:48 ( Edited 2014-03-16 10:48)

The saving will work as usual, it's just that any savegames you had pre-0.2.10 won't work after 0.2.10. It's only a problem for players who are in the middle of playing through a long level when they update to 0.2.10, and who would have wanted to continue where they left off.

P#8520 2014-03-16 07:17 ( Edited 2014-03-16 11:17)

oh thanks, now I understand

P#8521 2014-03-16 07:20 ( Edited 2014-03-16 11:20)

Release 2.10 today, move audio & controller work to 2.11, and have us test/ check those fews items on the list :)

P#8522 2014-03-16 08:31 ( Edited 2014-03-16 12:31)

heh, that's basically what I'm thinking (except not quite today!). I'm doing everything on that to-do list quite roughly, and then 0.2.11 will be the stable version that gets a trailer and wider announcement. So there will be about a week in-between to fix bugs and discover bad design decisions. If anyone is keen to make small experimental test carts during that week (say 20th~27th) it would be really helpful.

P#8523 2014-03-16 09:30 ( Edited 2014-03-16 13:30)

originally 0.2.10 was supposed to be a beta to 0.3, why can't 0.3 be the stable version? or are you planning to add more stuff in 0.3?(like exporting the levels)

I would apreciate if you released 2.10 the way it is now, and then worry about your to-do list, frequent little updates sometimes are better than huge ones who take a lot of time,
take paranautical activity for instance: they didn't updated the game to co-op yet because is huge, but they didn't made any changes on the game since october 2013 and now the players are complaining.

voxatron won't get to that state, at least that I'm sure, but 0.2.10 is somewhat late, I understand that updating this game takes time and a lot of thinking but we have made some plans already that depend on this new features so it would be nice to have them as soon as possible.

was I rude? I didn't meant to.

P#8524 2014-03-16 10:21 ( Edited 2014-03-16 14:22)

Forward, but I don't believe it's rude.
We've watched the release get pushed a back a bit, but at the same time it's seems the scope has been expanded quite a bit (or so I think, way to lazy too go hunting for the old 2.10 release plan).

Personally I'm not wanting to work on 2.9 with the looming changes I keep reading will appear in 2.10, and I don't think I am alone in thinking that. 2.10 just seems to awesome and game changing to want to do anything with 2.9.

So here's my last attempt at haggling for a new release. After reading the notes you just posted, I would like to think the following additions are module enough that any code changes you're making wont effect these areas and could be tested by your loyal community. We can call it 2.9.5!
1) Added: Transparent colours -- seems straight forward, collision logic and audio triggers don't seem like they will effec this
2) Added: Modifiable room height (maximum 64) -- same as 1#
3) All of the new actor functionality -- maybe? I wouldn't be surprised if this was effected by the collision, component activation, and the new scheme for indicating "teams" but I figured doesn't hurt to ask

You'll get some folks to look new content, and invigorate the community again. Being able to make shatter able glass windows would be fun enough for a few days for myself.

2.9.5! 2.9.5!!

Also -- bullet 2 Added: Base types: shape, colour... what other shapes are we talkin' about here?

P#8525 2014-03-16 12:30 ( Edited 2014-03-16 16:30)

I have to agree with everyone here:

I'm starting to actually LOSE ideas for the real Starship Combat because this update is taking so long. I have things like the previous ships, some ideas of what music I want to include (once the music editor is online) and a few new enemies, but I am lacking level progression, the story and any more enemy ideas.

I'm glad the release would be soon, but I am kind of tired of waiting. 2.9.5 is an idea, but you can do whatever, as long as the update is very soon, like you said.

P#8526 2014-03-16 14:58 ( Edited 2014-03-16 18:58)

I have to agree with RandomCommander. I am working on a fully-fledged map that can only be completed in 2.10 and it has been postponed for a lengthy amount of time that I'm starting to forget about the map and its levels. Zep, Please release 2.10 ASAP and take kling's advice to not to include everything in 2.10, but only include things we've all been waiting for. So zep, please release 2.10.

P#8530 2014-03-18 18:36 ( Edited 2014-03-18 22:36)

I've pushed everything I can that won't hurt development into 0.2.11 and 0.3 -- it really is as small as possible. It might be a little confusing why I need to include things like half-finished features and the manual in 0.2.10, but it's quite crucial to resolve and freeze the engine's design at this stage. Any core design flaws will be very costly later in terms of bugs, user frustration and dev time.

So, please hold tight for a little longer. It will be worth it, I promise! Try to forget about Voxatron this week and come back on Monday :)

0.3 isn't much larger in terms of features than 0.2.11, but it is intended to be a promotable release (hence the nice round version number). Most of the additional work for 0.3 is outside of the engine: making content and promotional material, doing web stuff, social features and bizdev.

A preview of a player and weapon pickup made in the editor:

P#8533 2014-03-19 18:02 ( Edited 2014-03-19 22:09)

the music man!

P#8534 2014-03-20 11:01 ( Edited 2014-03-20 15:01)

I have some few questions zep, first how do you make customized weapons and are the alpha carts accessible via voxde? thanks

P#8544 2014-03-24 00:37 ( Edited 2014-03-24 04:37)

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